MW Former Reddit CEO Ellen Pao says the tech sector's DEI push is alive and well
By James Rogers
'A lot of companies that weren't serious about diversity took the opportunity to shutter their diversity actions. But they weren't serious anyways,' Pao tells MarketWatch
The Value Gap is a MarketWatch interview series about confronting inequality that features business leaders, academics, policy makers and activists.
Despite some signs of wavering commitment to corporate diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, former Reddit Chief Executive Ellen Pao is bullish on DEI in the tech space.
Pao speaks from experience. More than a decade ago, the executive - dubbed "Silicon Valley's #1 Feminist Hero" by one of her predecessors - filed a gender-discrimination lawsuit against her former employer, the venture-capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, and rejected a pretrial settlement.
The protracted legal battle ended three years later, when Pao dropped her appeal of a jury verdict favoring Kleiner and agreed to pay the VC firm's legal costs. At the time, the Wall Street Journal described the clash as symbolic of "Silicon Valley's painful issues of sexism."
Pao, who served as Reddit's (RDDT) interim CEO from November 2014 to July 2015, now tackles inequality in the tech sector through Project Include. The nonprofit, co-founded by Pao and launched in May 2016, uses data and advocacy to promote diversity and inclusion in tech and has also published research, including guides for employers on making their workplaces more inclusive of transgender and gender-nonconforming employees and workers with disabilities.
"We didn't set out to build a nonprofit; we set out to share information," Pao told MarketWatch. Project Include focuses on early-stage startups, she said, and aims to work with companies with between 20 and 150 people.
Project Include has worked with a few dozen companies of various sizes, Pao said, including the software-design company Figma, the productivity-software maker Notion, the work-management platform Asana Inc. $(ASAN)$, the monetization platform Patreon and the customer-intelligence platform Dialpad.
The organization advises companies to incorporate three key values into their operations: inclusion, comprehensiveness and accountability. Inclusion means that companies should boost opportunities for all workers, including those from underrepresented groups, while comprehensiveness ensures that all aspects of a company are covered, according to Project Include. Companies should also hold themselves accountable by tracking progress and areas for improvement, the advocacy group says.
Outside of companies the nonprofit has formally worked with, Pao added, "we have impacted a lot more. ... A lot of people have adopted our framework."
This work is happening against a shifting landscape for DEI work. While many prominent companies have embraced such initiatives in recent years, particularly after the 2020 murder of George Floyd and ensuing protests, they have tread with caution more recently amid a conservative backlash. Meanwhile, some business technology leaders have voiced concern that last year's Supreme Court ruling eliminating affirmative action in college admissions could stymie progress on diversifying the tech workforce.
Read more: Companies are pulling back on DEI. What will be lost in the process?
More from the archives (April 2023): Three years after companies doubled down on DEI, 'the pendulum swings back.' Here's why.
But the way Pao sees it, the companies that were serious about creating more inclusive workplaces in the first place are staying the course - if a bit more quietly. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
MarketWatch: What do you see as the future of DEI in tech, particularly in the wake of the Supreme Court's affirmative-action ruling?
Pao: I think that it's a small group of people and a small group of companies that don't want their companies to be inclusive. When I talk to people in different companies - big companies, small companies - they are continuing to do the work. They don't talk about it as much because there has been an unfair attack on this type of work. It's not a silo in organizations.
From the archives (June 2023): How college admissions will change in America after the Supreme Court knocked down affirmative action
MarketWatch: Are tech companies still on the right path with regard to DEI?
Pao: Yes. It's definitely a tough time for many tech companies - they have been doing layoffs. But if you talk to people, especially those just coming out of school, they want to work with a company with diversity. They don't want to work in a homogenous company - a lot of companies realize that. A lot of the data shows better decision-making from diverse teams, better financial outcomes. It's not an accident.
'There are so many people working on these problems that it feels very powerful. I think that's why there has been so much pushback.'Ellen Pao
MarketWatch: So companies are sticking with this effort, even amid reports of DEI budget cuts?
Pao: I think that people are really understanding that it's part of company culture. A lot of companies that weren't serious about diversity took the opportunity to shutter their diversity actions. But they weren't serious anyways.
More from the archives (June 2023): Tech companies scaled back diversity, equity and inclusion teams last year amid backlash, report says
MarketWatch: There have been concerns that as AI becomes more viable, a less-inclusive and less-diverse workforce could mean algorithmic biases are more likely to slip through. What do you make of that?
Pao: I think AI is an area where we need to pay attention because it's not changing as fast as it needs to. A lot of these AI companies built their technology on biased data and haven't addressed that problem. More folks are calling out this problem.
MarketWatch: Are you hopeful for the future?
Pao: I look at what's happening now, and it's a moment in time. There are a few folks who are taking the opportunity to take the spotlight and shape the narrative - they are trying to shape the narrative to kind of distract and block change. It's very slow and there's so much work to do, but we're going in the right direction and it's good for society.
MarketWatch: What insights have you gained during your career?
Pao: I think that I have a better sense of the systemic forces and how institutions work and the influence of power on the tech industry that I didn't have 15 years ago. You realize the shape and scope of these problems, but also, you realize that you can help.
Now that I realize that I can help, it's rewarding - there are so many people working on these problems that it feels very powerful. I think that's why there has been so much pushback. It's trying to focus on this fact that there is so much progress being made and not let go of that, because people are afraid of it.
MarketWatch: How would you define diversity success?
Pao: It's when your workforce looks like the working population and when everyone has opportunities from all backgrounds. I think the thing that people miss is when you have an inclusive culture, it helps everyone. I think that everybody still has work to do.
-James Rogers
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April 25, 2024 07:35 ET (11:35 GMT)
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